09 June, 2008

Fat people, flying


I've long supported the idea that fat people should have to pay more to fly.

It always annoys me that I weight 9st and I'm restricted to 20 kilos of luggage whereas Mr Lardy-Arse weighs 15 st and has the same amount of luggage. I can understand why any one single piece of luggage shouldn't exceed 20 kilos, in terms of lifting, but I can't understand what the argument is regarding the total amount of luggage.

Fat people don't just cost more in terms of fuel, they also use up more space and spill over into my seat space.

It seems Freakonomics has the same idea, here.

47 comments:

Asp said...

I've had the same thoughts for ages too, and we're not the only ones.

The only problem is, I'm sure, being PC. Could you imagine the humiliation as people are forced to stand on weighing scales at check in? It could be construed as 'fattist'.
Mind you, with the 'obesity epidemic' it could provide motivation for people to ensure they're not the 'fattest'

(See what I did there? Don't worry, I'll show myself out)

Miss Middle of Manchester said...

Well, as I would weigh everyone with all the luggage that they were taking on, humiliation would be avoided.

Fat people are fat because of their behaviour. However many claim that 'they can't help it' for this or that medical reason, they're wrong. I find it striking that in famine struck Africa or in the various death camps in the world throughout history there aren't any fat people at all. If as many people are fat because of a hormone problem as the number of fatties who claim that that applies to them, I'm pretty such even Auschwitz would have borne witness to some unfortunate fatties.

Eat less, do more, pay less for flying...

Android said...

That's like indirect discrimination, or something :)

But... Being fat is unhealthy, so they should lose the weight in any event!

Miss Middle of Manchester said...

To quote Sprack:

All discrimination is wholly legal unless expressly prohibited.

If an overwhelming percentage of fat people were female, black, gay, old or transgendered, then it would be illegal discrimination. However, discriminating against fat people because they are fat, you'll be pleased to know, is completely legal.

Android said...

Good point! I never really liked EU law.

But based on that, we know what's coming next - if enough people complain, it will be made illegal soon...

Jak Marshall said...

Perhaps a BMI would be more appropriate?

The humiliation of being weighed if one is of the fat persuasion shouldn't be a problem because the person is fat already. They have to walk around 24-7(well... waddle anyway) looking like morons anyway so an empirical verification of their lard-arse status shouldn't register on the Richter scale for humiliation. If they get depressed they can just eat a Mars bar out of their 1 kilo allocated luggage in their double seat.

Bloody fat shits

Jak

Miss Middle of Manchester said...

I don't like to use BMI because whilst it is unfortunate that a tall, skinny man pays more, he is costing the airplane more in fuel, just like a short fat person. If you weigh 15 st, you burn 15st of fuel, regardless of hose that 15st is distributed around your body.

Plus, I just don't buy the 'I'm tall so I weigh more' argument at all costs. I'm tall for a girl(5'10") but don't weigh much. I weigh considerably less than a number of my far shorter friends.

Yes, a short skinny person will weigh less than a tall sknny person. But not by much. Skinny is skinny and fat is fat, regardless of how we distribute it.

chopper said...

fat people are costing the world to much money and time. "total fitnes" gym's everywhere why not use them. laziness is the crime. why get your self there in the first place ££££££££££££££££££££££

Anonymous said...

hey fuck all of you there is absolutely nothing wrong with people who are fat...

Miss Middle of Manchester said...

@ Anonymous

1. Medically, there's something very wrong with fat people

2. Socially, they are costing me money both on health care but also on additional fuel needed for flying

3. Psychologically, to get that fat, there has to b something wrong in the brain. Either the switch which says 'stop eating now' isn't there or the switch which says 'exercise is good' isn't there or the brain is programmed towards over indulgence. Either way, the brain is the organ that does the thinking that keeps the body safe. As an obese person is inherently 'unsafe' in their behaviour, I would argue most strongly that there is something very wrong indeed with fat people.

Ragnar said...

What a bunch of retards.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Miss Middle of Manchester said...

Previous two anonymous posts deleted for awful spelling, swearing, complete lack of grammar AND being anonymous.

milissa hugart said...

Maybe you should buy a first class ticket and stop criticizing innocent people because of their weight. For your information, if you have a problem with an obese person sitting next to you... tell the flight attendant. She/he will determine if its bad enough or not. If it is, they will move you to a different location, or simply tell you to get over it.

seriously you are ridiculous.

takeira n kenyetta said...

ur a fat dude

Anonymous said...

i've always been of the opinion that fat people are
just greedy slobs who just can't bear the sight of food without having some of it, and when i say fat i'm talking of those obese creatures who aware of their size but still continue to gooble food that could feed a staving nation.

cali_girl975_highschool_12@msn.com said...

u guys are all so mean i cant see y u think someone needs to pay more to fly when they are over weight i am 15 and obease i believe and know for a fact that eating is a disorder that is uncontrollable at times it is so rude and cruel for you to say these mean and hurtfull things to obease ppl instead of thinking about yourself on these kind of subjects think of how the other ppl feel about your comments words hurt you cant feel it phisicly but you will have the mental scars forever the saying ( sticks and stones may break ur bones but words will never hurt me) is a lie i get made fun of every day because i am big and it hurts i cry all the time think of other ppl when u make these comments..... u selfish pos.

piggyfan94@hotmail.com said...

just to let you know that i have a cousin that ways 700 lbs and i dont think ppl have the right to call people "fat" but gusse what i think you and me and the whole word should stop calling ppl "fat"

Miss Middle of Manchester said...

700 lbs?!

So a little under 350 kg - quite literally, the same weight as half a car (ok, so old mini cooper).

Seriously, I agree obesity is an eating disorder - I don't think that means the rest of society should have to suffer as a result.

cali_girl975_highschool_12 said...

i am sorry that i have strong oppinions on things but seriously nobosy is suffering from it because the only reason we are even talking about it is because u and other ppl have an issue because u r prob skinny and beautiful or whatever and u think everyone should be the same but nobody is the same even my twin is different from me so if u have an issue with fat pl then kiss my fat a**

cali_girl975_highschool_12 said...

realy stop and think how these ppl feel they dont want to be fat i dont want to be fat but i am i walk around town to help excersize because i cant run and i get laughed at but i know that being laughed at is modivation to me to keep workindg so if u realy want to down someone who is fat dint say anything treat them like dirt but dont say shit cause if u were fat and we were talkin shit on u how would u feel think about it for a min before u comment again

Anonymous said...

I would just like to say to the comment about 'you are probably skinny or beautiful or whatever' yes they probably are. Skinny is something that a select few people can be without any effort, but what most people are because of controlled eating and bloody hard work. If you dont like the way you look,then get up off your ass and do something about it.Dont blame thyroids,or illness or depression, it is sheer bloody laziness and a willingness to blame others for your inability to cope with the fact that you are unhappy in your life.

Miss Middle of Manchester said...

Here's the deal:

My journey to walk is a fraction under 2 miles each way. That's 300 calories. I then go out at lunchtime, if I can, or I tend to walk to court 3-4 times per week. That's at least another 100-200 calories per day. I do about 0.5-1.0 hours of housework each night (100-200 calories). I walk to the supermarket 4-5 times per week and then walk aaround it (50 calories). General living (breathing etc) with my build and height I believe is about 1200 calories per day (80 per hour). My job is entirely sedentary if I am not travelling. I have never been to a gym. My daily use of calories is therefore about 1700-2000.

I have an actimel (or similar) for breakfast (100 calories). I only drink water or black tea at work. (0 calories). For lunch, if I have it, I will usually have a Boots meal deal which is a sandwich/suchi+drink (smoothie or red bull)+dried fruit. (between 500-800 calories depending). I will have lunch 3-4 times per week. For dinner, I will usually have a meal of between 500-1000 calories, depending if I had lunch. I might snack on c. 2 biscuits per day (100 calories each).

I don't have an especially healthy diet - it tends to be high in meat and carbs and low in vitamins. I never go for a 'low fat' version of anything except diet coke ass the flavour isn't as good so I want to eat more of it. If I want to eat a big plate of food, or a massive steak, I do - but I am often not hungry. I certainly wouldn't say that I diet most of the time (crash diets to fit into dressing are an entirely different matter!).

My BMI is about 18, most of the year. In summer, it is lower.

I know a single biscuit contains 100 calories, so even snacking on 5 will be 1/3 of the daily allowance. I know that when I go through a week where I get a lift to work, I will burn 1500 less calories. I know that I find myself unattractive when I am larger and can't afford to buy new clothes if I go up a dress size. By exercising just a smidgeon of control every day, I can stay at a weight I am more or less happy with.

People put on wieght a few extra colories a day. Unless a person is doing a 'big mac a meal', most people really don't need to put much effort into losing weight over a long period of time: eat a little less, do a little more.

If you say 'I can't do that', it's not that a person can't, it's that they have chosen not to. That's fine, if they enjoy food and dislike exercise, it's not an issue that concerns me, until it affects me. When it affects me is when I have to pay more for my plane ticket, or have less space, because of their lifestyle choices. It's the same way that if someone choses to smoke, that's fine. When their second hand smoke affects me, (even without cancer, there is an unpleasant smell) then it's not.

JOE said...

Guys listen up...im only 13 years old but even i can see that this is going nowhere..firstly no government people or whoever are gonna find this tiny chatroom so that they can make the price more fair,secondly,and most importantly,do you guys seriously have nothing better to do than complain about fat persons getting it easier when flying..and miss middle manchester or whatever your name is,your 9 stone..im 9 stone..and its not like you excersise properly.you stated you walk around a bit..did some shopping...would you really class that as a decent,efficient excercis? are you sure your not the one with the eating disorder? 15 stone is an average weight for a male,and if you ment female maybe you should have stated that in the starting comment.i eat as much as my mum,not because i am greedy but because i swim 2 hours a day,7 days a week.to be honest right now i could easily start a new chatroom about how i am disgusted about people suffering from anorexia..

Miss Middle of Manchester said...

Dear Joe-

Firstly, you'll note from my other posts I tend to take a libertarian view on life - that means that even if I was writing this blog for the purpose of trying to change the mind of the government then on this issue, I think it is for the airlines to decide. Actually, the weight of my own self ego is plenty enough reason to blog.

On the issue of exercise, I firstly dispute that there is an infinte connection between exercise and healthiness. There isn't any evidence at all that 'overly' exercising makes you healthier (which I would argue is measure in quality adjusted life years). Our grandmothers never went to the gym in their lives, they ate healthily (thanks to rationing/relative poverty/gender roles in society) and did their exercise on a daily basis: housework, walking to the shops etc. On average, they are healthier than today's equivalents.

Perhaps overall, the issue of exercise is a topic for an entirely different post. My point, if you read carefully, isn't that fat people should be banned in law (or similar moral argument), simply that it is unfair for me to be subsidising their plane tickets.

That you weigh 15 st because you are a young male who exercises is beside the point: you are using 6 st more fuel than me, why should I pay more on my ticket? You will note that I explicitly rejected the suggestion of using BMI on the basis that it sucks to be tall sometimes, but you are still using more jet fuel.

I do hope you enjoy the rest of the blog and that it helps you in your studies.

Joe said...

i may have misunderstood a few points in which you have corrected me on,i admit,though i disagree with this "overly exercising" also this statement of our grandmothers,that is different to nowadays because back then most of them lived the same way-housewives,now though,we are far more different in what we do. you are rightly correcting me on these points understood,which is understandable because my grammer is not as developed as someone who works in law. (is that correct?) apologies if it is not. Though i am trying my best to fully understand what you are trying to argue,and if you read carefully you would have seen that i wrote i was 9 stone and i clearly wrote that the average for fully grown males is 15 stone,though now this is irrelevant.if i were to class somone as overweight i think maybe 13-14 stone for women and 19-20 stone for men,and could i please ask how much an average plane ticket costs?

Anonymous said...

Ok we seriously need to get a better thing to write about because all u skiny bit**** needto stop critisizing other people u only do it because u are insecure about something about you so maybe you should think about what your saying and how pathedic u sound saying it because obease ppl are obease cause of their issues and its not up to u to change them if they wat to changet they will and we cant controll it so shut the f*** up and save your comments for somebody who cares.

Anonymous said...

the plane uses the same ammount of fuel no matter what because the size of the plane DOES NOT CHANGE same with the MOTOR so ur fing stupid to think that it takes up more fuel when it DOES NOT!

Anonymous said...

In response to Anonymous above, yes, a plane does use more fuel the larger the "load" that is onboard the plane. The amount of "Lift" required to fly that plane at level flight is equal to it's "Weight". To produce a larger "Lift", the engines have to produce more "Thrust". To produce more "Thrust" the aircraft engines have to operate at a higher "RPM", which requires more fuel. So, the more weight on the plane, the more fuel it uses. You may think that the additional weight of one person may be minuscule, but the price of aircraft fuel aka "Jet A" fuel is very pricey.

Anonymous said...

lol...
This is a stupid blog...
Do you really think if they only let skinny people on a plane, that your fare would chance? You are such a moron...

And to quote an earlier post,

"I would just like to say to the comment about 'you are probably skinny or beautiful or whatever' yes they probably are. Skinny is something that a select few people can be without any effort, but what most people are because of controlled eating and bloody hard work. If you dont like the way you look,then get up off your ass and do something about it."

Right. People should get up and do somthing about it if "they" don't like they way they look, not because YOU want them to or think they SHOULD. Who are you to say?

There are all kinds of other people in the world. If you don;t like fat people flying next to you, write to the airlines and demand bigger seats in coach. Otherwise, shut up and buy a first class ticket you cheap lech. This is your problem, not theirs. And if you argue they are making it your problem by "infringing" on your space... Suck it up! It;s not that big an issue...

To show the tyope of people on this blog, look above. Someone actually defended Nazi clensing by stating that fat people would have been there. What a joke.
You all need to get a life and not let things get to you so much...
But what would you have to do then, right? I bet most of you just like being little pushy dip sticks.
Laughable. Really.
I think I should get fat and start flying just so I can see some of your smug faces grimmace. lol.

FAT PEOPLE HATING BABY :) said...

mi mommy think so too, fat people take SPACE! ^_^

Anonymous said...

Yes, I am fat and I'm dealing with it. I gained 40 lbs. since Sept. when I was put on "special" pain management pills which caused weight gain and water retention. However, what about the people who stink? What about the kid behind you kicking your seat the entire way. What about the screaming kid. What about the smokers going into the bathroom to smoke and them smelling bad the entire trip? If it isn't one thing it's another. If you don't like it, charter a private jet!

Kelly said...

Everyone's body type is different, and there are countless factors that can affect a person's weight (metabolism, thyroid, food they are brought up on, personality, and many many more). Yes, some people who are overweight simply eat too much and exercise too little due to laziness. But before you judge them, consider the other possible factors. Also, Maintaining a healthy weight is DIFFICULT in a western culture with so much cheap, fast food and product placement. I am not overweight, but struggle with temptation every day. I am not defending all overweight people. I agree that thyroid conditions and other health problems are not are complete excuse for obesity, but they certainly contribute. So getting to our main topic, whether overweight people should pay more for plane tickets: In a way it makes sense, but all in all I believe it is not fair. Not every overweight person is lazy.

Anonymous said...

Ha, eating is an illness. It's called self control, you should try it out sometime. If you got large bones, sure, you can't help it. But if you were at one point healthy and you became jabba the hut I don't buy it. Everyone's whining about their problems being an illness or disorder and that they're helpless. Put a damn lock on the fridge and and get a straight jacket for a few months.

T. I. Tsakimbo said...

Fat persons will consume more fuel upon the aircraft. They will also eat more food and need more water to flush the toilet. I do agree therefore that they must pay a higher fare to travel.

Anonymous said...

I don't think that the basis of the cost of an airline ticket is solely on how much jet fuel each person uses. This is a rediculous rationality. Absolutely I agree that over eating is not a disease just as I feel that alcoholism is not a disease. Do I think that Alcoholics should give me money because I don't like how many bars are in my town? Hell no. You are acting the victim just as much as the fat people who sue Mcdonalds. Whining because you have to pay the SAME as a larger person. Oh bother.

str8gal said...

all u people say abt fat people could be said for drugs addicted, alcoholists ,but we have pity for them , even trying to cure them...i believe that all them share the same greed and need ,making them what they are.we have to blame everyone unable to give a stop or should we have to help and understand them? because what moves us for some of them , should do the same for all of them , since they have the same sickness...fat people are simply less good looking...that's why we can't forgive them....think of!

Anonymous said...

ok anyone that can sit here and make fun of fat people are just unhappy with there own lives.Me, im overweight, im 17 and weigh about 280 lbs. I'm the farthest thing from lazy. I work out and lift 5 days a week, i am in football, wrestling, and track. So before u shitheads judge people think about people that aren't lazy and could kick ur scrawny ass.

Fat Bastard said...

I am a fat guy and I spill over onto other people. I am also the voice of the new fat acceptance movement and unlike the crazy women who run the old fat acceptance I believe that fat people who spill over onto other passengers should be required to pay for two seats. If you think about it the person you are spilling onto is giving up part of his seat for you.

I admit it. I am a greedy glutton but I also believe I should not squash people on airplanes. There is a price for my gluttony and I am willing to pay it.

Anonymous said...

Social acceptance of overweight people will abolish their motivation to become healthy. If you make them pay more, or discriminate them in the workplace and schoolyard for being greedy pigs then it will help them achieve their goals to getting slimmer. Being fat because of an "illness" or "disorder" is a myth, a complete lie. You eat because you can, and because you have no respect for those who can't. Being overweight is selfish, pathetic, greedy, and disgusting. no other animal on the face of this planet can achieve overweight unless somehow helped by the efforts or effects of people, what does that say about you people? Those who claim they cannot lose weight are liars, it's just far more simple to accept their looks than to change it in a more acceptable way. Survival of the fittest my friends, if you cannot live in the wild in your condition then you are not meant to walk on this earth.

amber (: said...

I certainly aggree that the more you weigh, the more you pay!
It's the best idea i have heard in a long time!
People who are skinny work hard for it most of the time. We have to eat the right thing, exersize regulary and be balancing our lifestyles all at once. Fat people are generally lazy and full of excuses, "i'm big boned," "its a medical condition" "i want to lose weight but i can't". None of those excuses are true and the person who said something about our grandmothers and great grandmas is totally correct.! They never ate too much and would have something like fish and chips once in a blue moon, and were busy all the time, and when you look back at the pictures they were never overweight! Now days people have takeaway EVERYDAY! how ridiculous! maybe if people actually walked to the shops to get their ingrediants came home and cooked up a nice home meal they wouldnt be fat at all compared to if they go through the maccas drivethrough!
If your fat, you can pay the price i say.

jane said...

People like "Fat Bastard" shoulld receive a medal! It;s about time Fat people relize how much trouble they can cause! Thankyou "fat bastard" you have made my day!
oh and weighing people, and seeing how much their ticket costs that way, fantastic idea! I love it!

Anonymous said...

Do you really think that 15st is fat? Many people who are perfectly healthy and probalbly do more sport and are fitter than you could weigh 15st, it is a perfectly healthy weight. i don't understand why one human being should have to pay more or less than another human being. it is like rewarding people who are thin. This raises the question weather an anorexic person has to pay even less than an non obese person. This would be rewarding an eatting disorder and may cause more people to become anorexic. Also, do you think that there should be an increase in each 1st that you are over weight or is it a dead cut off line- that you are over weight and therefore you have to pay more money, even though that person may just be 4 or 5 kgs over the ideal weight for the persons height.

I personally think it is wrong to make someone pay more for flights, it is their chose weather they put on that weight due to different reasons, but they should not be punished for it.

Keefer said...

It should be based on the width of the person.. I mean Im not fat so i dont have to worry about this, but I think the scale thing wont work. I fight in the amateur mma and I am 5 10 and weigh 190 pounds which is considered "obese" but its muscle. So I agree it is annoying fat peoples nasty skin rolling over the arm rest but I think it should be done by width.

Kynan said...

I am another one who believes that those who say they just can't help it are talking bollocks. In some cases, there is a serious psycological problem that needs to be seen to, but in many cases you just need to stop salad dodging.
When I get slightly larger than I should be (which is quite often, I confess) I beat myself up and lose the weight within a month or so. If people take the piss then I grow a thicker skin and just laugh with them. People who are really fat, by that I mean not a few extra pounds, but really pouring over those jeans and bingo wings to challenge a ships sails - should have to pay more money to fly. They weigh more and should have to pay for the extra fuel they use. I would do it because if I got to that stage, it is me who chose to do so. I wouldn't dream of making it someone elses problem. I have no prejudice against fat people as people, but I don't like the fact that society has to pay to keep them alive, when ideally we should make use of that stored energy and power a home for a lifetime.

I see more and more programs of American fat people who need a minimum of 5 people to look after them throughout the day. It is the town that pays for that, and when they have the cheek to eat anything unhealthy it makes me sick and quite frankly, furious.

You may disagree with my views and by all means please do, it makes life far more interesting, but any insults or saying I'm racist/prejudice will be ignored. If I was I'd be open about it. ;)

I too am 15 and can see that being fat is medically unhealthy and it is a choice you make. No one forces you to eat, I often eat utter rubbish for a couple of weeks which makes me put on weight which I lose myself. Don't cry if you get teased, it is your choice and you can do something about it. By telling yourself and others that you can't won't help anything. It is just a quitters mentality.

Humiliation happens, its not descrimination because you are unhealthy. Deal with it. It's your problem, no one elses.

Anonymous said...

All you people that say fat people are lazy, or just use I can't help it as an excuse have proabaly never been fat!!!!!!!! Some poeple metabolize food differently than others. I eat LESS than my couch potato friend, I work out 5x a week w/ a trainer and she weighs less than I do. Some of you thin folks are not "fit" just smaller. While I agree that if a person needs 2 seats they should have to pay for 2 I think it is terrible how some of you talk about fat people as if they are less than you in some way. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

Hegra said...

I'm just watching "whats eating Gilbert Grape" and my son didn't believe that a person could be that big. I then went on the iPad to show him some pictures and came across your blog. It was very interesting reading every bodies thoughts on fat people paying extra fees for flying, thank goodness for freedom of speech! Lol! I travel at least once a year from Canada to the Uk, sometimes it's a 9 hour flight and can get very uncomfortable if I'm next to a bigger person. I'm only 5'8" but I have a 34" inside leg so I pay an extra £100 to book the seats with the extra leg room but I'd prefer not to have to share half my seat with someone else! If your bottom is too big to fit in between the arm rests then please pay for Two seats and we can all have a pleasant and safe journey.